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why no many other companies use Dathorn's strategies?
| Posted by parkinghost, 09-03-2003, 11:53 AM |
| personally I think Dathorn 's reseller planning is quiet good and the strategy does make profits because it does not alllow overselling. From my experiences, only less than 1/10 customers will use up BW they get. people who get 10G may only use 2G.
Therefore, Dathorn could oversell BW very much.
If httpme put 40 accounts on the servers, which allow overselling
Dathon strategy could put 120 account on it and server do not saturate.
so, why no other companies use the similar strategies? just curious
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| Posted by bonnmac, 09-03-2003, 12:16 PM |
| There are several that use similar stratagies. Maybe not exactly the same but similar.
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| Posted by Esr Tek, 09-03-2003, 01:36 PM |
| One reason:
They expect those assigned to server, to start using all the resources they pay for!
(After all these are reseller accounts, not just normal virtual accounts. The same averages of usage do not apply!)
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| Posted by parkinghost, 09-03-2003, 02:01 PM |
| well, if I buy Dathorn 20G BW plan for example, in fierce competitions nowadays, I may have to setup a plan 5G for 10 USD/month. That would be only 4 accounts.
I would guess that if I buy a 20G virtual hosting, I probablly have been using up 10G+, so I jump into 20G BW plan. However, in Dathorn 's those 4 accounts, from experiences,accounts may use only totally 6G something...
That's very different though
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| Posted by idologicJeff, 09-03-2003, 03:35 PM |
| Because we believe its better value to the client to be able to use all of the resources they pay for. i.e. If need be by overselling. [Incidently, we don't ourselves oversell]
Basically Dathorn reduces their reseller accounts to shared hosting accounts in that allocated resources are equated to used resources in their pricing model.
Cheers
Jeff
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| Posted by yjack, 09-03-2003, 11:46 PM |
| I'm not sure I follow the logic. Dathorn doesn't permit overselling. So, if I have a reseller account with them to sell webhosting, I'm selling virtual accounts, right? If I can't oversell my space/bandwidth, shouldn't the averages of the virtual accounts that you refer to simply pass up to Dathorn? Because of this, Dathorn can oversell without worrying about their resellers also overselling and overextending the total resources available to their servers, be profitable, offer quality support, and still have inexpensive packages.
The fact that there are different companies using different business models - and being profitable - suggests that one size doesn't fit all. Some resellers don't like the lack of flexibility by not being able to oversell and go with higher priced plans offered by other hosts. Some resellers do just fine with the less expensive plans without overselling.
Fact is, Dathorn appeals to some and doesn't appeal to others.
yjack
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| Posted by palash, 09-04-2003, 12:40 AM |
| it's very simple rule.
===============
if receller company overselling then you can't oversell but buying price will low but you will sell virtual accounts with high cost
if receller company dont overselling then you can oversell but buying price will high but you will sell virtual accounts with low cost.
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| Posted by coight, 09-04-2003, 01:05 AM |
| 40 resellers a server
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| Posted by Esr Tek, 09-04-2003, 07:48 AM |
| You fail to follow because it seems you fail to understand the difference between Allotment and Actual Usage
With Dathorn it's an Allotment system.. Once you assign out all the space/bandwidth, it does not matter if they use it or not, you have to upgrade to add any more accounts.
Others use a Actual Usage system.. Where you can allot as much as you like and keep adding more as long as the actual used space/bandwidth is within your resource allotment still.
So you do NOT have to upgrade until you have many more accounts and they are actually using the resources you paying for.
This was the claim on the older non Dual-Xeon machines..
I am not sure how many he puts on now, but I can pretty safely say it's still under 100.
Last edited by Esr Tek; 09-04-2003 at 07:54 AM.
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| Posted by Aussie Bob, 09-04-2003, 09:13 AM |
| 40 clients on the Dual XEONs. Also remember that approximately 80% of our clients are not resellers. They're folks looking for Multiple Domain Hosting. Big difference.
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| Posted by yjack, 09-04-2003, 12:10 PM |
| I understand the difference between allotment and actual usage. That difference is part of the foundation Dathorn's strategy is based on. Dathorn doesn't allow overselling - their resellers can only resell what they are allotted. That is their strategy, their business model.
Yes, with Dathorn, when you resell your total allotment and want to sell more you have to upgrade your plan rather than overselling. But, at Dathorn's costs, which prices the reseller more: purchasing a less expensive plan and upgrading to a proportionately less expensive plan when necessary or paying for a more expensive plan that permits overselling? My guess is that in the long run the reseller would probably end up paying about the same.
For those who buy a reseller plan to host multiple accounts of their own, they don't need to worry about overselling. They are buying a plan based on their expected actual usage so their allotment becomes their actual usage - and it could be less expensive for them with a company using a strategy like Dathorn uses.
yjack
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| Posted by Esr Tek, 09-04-2003, 12:36 PM |
| OK but what happens when everyone assigned space/bandwidth decides to use it?? If the server is oversold, then is when the headaches come in.
If no one, or a very small %, use all their space / bandwidth allotments, then this model is fine and works, but it can be very dangerous path.
[Disclaimer:]
I have no idea if Dathorn does or doesn't oversell their servers, and I am not trying to insinuate they do.
[/Disclaimer]
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| Posted by Derrick, 09-04-2003, 06:38 PM |
| I believe if a clients site starts putting a drain on the server(growing too large etc...) they transfer the site to a new server. Im not sure if they oversell or not either but I know Andrew keeps a watchful eye over things and is proactive rather that reactive to situations.
Derrick
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| Posted by UH-Matt, 09-04-2003, 06:40 PM |
| The strategy is not unique. A lot of hosts do allow overselling and a lot of hosts dont, nothing special about it - just dependant on the business model a company chooses to adopt.
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| Posted by parkinghost, 09-05-2003, 11:42 AM |
| we need more Dathorn style companies !!!!
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| Posted by intraweb, 09-06-2003, 01:37 PM |
| Dathorns business model only benefits Dathorn. Their plan style might make sense for someone who is hosting multiple domains, and OWNS all of the domains on the Dathorn reseller account. With this scenerio I could increase the ALOTMENT as needed, and truly utilize all of my ALOTMENT.
As for someone trying to run a "hosting business" with a Dathorn style system is a joke. It is actually far more expensive than going with a REAL reseller account that is $25 - $35 per month (in most cases).
If you are trying to run a "hosting business" and can't afford $30 - $40 a month for a robust reseller account, or $100 - $200 for a dedicated, maybe you need to deliver some more pizzas and save some more money first.
Also, when someone offers me a reseller account for $13.50 - know what you are getting. You are getting a one man operation, marginal equipment and specs, little if any network security.
This is just my opinion, I know some of you are die hard Dathorners - but I have been down that road, and it was not a fun trip...
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| Posted by IJLY, 09-06-2003, 02:40 PM |
| intraweb fully agreed
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| Posted by centrahost, 09-06-2003, 02:51 PM |
| There are more around then you think. Some even have more innovative offers.
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| Posted by ThePrimeHost, 09-07-2003, 03:30 PM |
| We'ver started an off shoot brand to tap into this end of the market as I foresee vast growth in this realm.
As far as equipment and bandwidth go, try a Pentium IV 2.0 GHZ machine at The Planet. It seems to please the end users.
Kind Regards,
-Darrell
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| Posted by intraweb, 09-07-2003, 04:02 PM |
| I hope not...
Basically it is just pre-paying for virtual accounts, if you really think about it. I can't consider those actual reseller accounts.
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| Posted by ThePrimeHost, 09-07-2003, 04:10 PM |
| Sure you can. Please elaborate.
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| Posted by intraweb, 09-07-2003, 04:28 PM |
| What more can I say? The only person who benefits from a non-overselling structure is the hosting provider. The 'reseller' is not going to benefit, even if their monthly price is 1/2 what the 'overselling' reseller is charging.
The hosting provider is 'overselling' - but you can't.
I sign up two people that just must have a 1GB plan, and I am done. Even though these people might never use close to their allotted space. For a large volume host, this gets way out of control fast, and you can only offer 'small' plans.
Take the abvoe scenerio times 6 - now I have a 6GB reseller account for lets say $50 - yet I am utilizing about 2GB (just an example.) Hmmm..... wait a minute, this doesn't add up.... :-)
6GB 'non-overselling plan' - $50/mo
Allocated 6GB, utilizing 2GB
2GB 'overselling plan' - $30/mo
Allocated 6GB, utilizing 2GB
Now which is the better bargain? Sorry folks I like to pay for what I utilize. Overselling is a big part of this business, and is critical to making a profit off of virtual customers. Not being able to oversell them can be defined as restricting profit.
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| Posted by ThePrimeHost, 09-07-2003, 04:33 PM |
| Agreed. Which is why we allow (upon request) limited, managed / monitored over selling.
Best Regards,
-Darrell
Last edited by ThePrimeHost; 09-08-2003 at 11:14 AM.
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| Posted by akuo, 09-08-2003, 08:26 AM |
| It depends what you want to do with your space though. It may prove economical if you've only got very small plans - say 5Mb each. Or if you currently have a large number of domains yourself and know your total usage is < 2GB.
Sure, if you're going to run a hosting business selling average size plans it doesn't add up - but I can think of a bunch of other scenarios where it's just the ticket. It obviously works for some people.. unless you're doubting the intellect of Dathorn's 1000+ clients?
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| Posted by yjack, 09-08-2003, 09:12 PM |
| Is there a polite and delicate way to tell someone their fly is open? Well . . .
Intraweb - the template you are using on the front page of your site still says WELCOME TO COMPANY NAME. Since you offer website design in addition to hosting you probably ought to finish your website.
yjack
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| Posted by intraweb, 09-08-2003, 09:25 PM |
| This thread has nothing to do with me, so I won't respond to your comments.
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| Posted by efarmer, 09-08-2003, 11:56 PM |
| Which style ???:
- support
- price
- no overselling
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| Posted by ThePrimeHost, 09-10-2003, 10:01 AM |
| Most likely price.
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