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Cartika Hosting (Reseller) Review
Posted by Bluesplinter, 05-11-2009, 12:54 PM I've been with Cartika for close to a year and a half, and in return for all they've given me, I figured it was time I gave them a review. I have reseller accounts on both their multi-platform cluster, and their high availability linux cluster. And, being a big fan of westerns, I present The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly! THE GOOD Features -- I can provide my clients with hosting on Linux, FreeBSD, Windows (including ColdFusion), and load-balanced HA Linux. Want Exchange or Sharepoint? Check. MySQL, MS SQL, pgSQL? Got it. Oh yeah, and R1Soft's CDP backups, too. And it's all clustered. With Cartika's philosophy of underutilized capacity, sites are always snappy -- and clients like that! Uptime -- In a word: phenomenal. When I owned colo boxes, I was always worried that a service (or a whole box) would go down. Now I don't have to worry about that. Cartika is proud of their years of 99.9%+ uptime, and with that history, and now knowing the folks behind it and WHY they have that amazing record, I sleep great. Service -- Second-to-none. I freely admit, I'm a bit of a pest... I submit a lot of tickets, and I post alot of questions in their forums. And while many of my questions are routine, a great deal of them are off-the-wall obscure or even irritating. However, Jonathan, Steven, Jeffery, Ellen, Jeff, Nick, and of course Andrew have always been highly competent and extremely friendly in their dealings with me -- probably forgetting some folks there, these are just the ones I have dealt with the most. Even when I start to feel like I'm pestering them too much, they always make me feel as if they're grateful for the chance to help me out. Now, this isn't to say they always give me everything I ask for, but if they don't, or can't, they always make sure I understand the reasoning behind it. So even in those (few) instances where they say "No", I come away respecting their decision, and often with a better alternative they suggest. Pricing -- If you've been at WHT for awhile, you know the primary "complaint" about Cartika is their pricing. And the usual (correct) response is that you get what you pay for. You aren't paying for a few GB of space and bandwidth, you're paying for the folks behind it. You're paying for multiple clustered servers always being up and never being overloaded, and for having your tickets answered promptly and competently. You're paying for the ability to offer multiple operating systems on a robust, clustered environment. Heck, you might even say the space and bandwidth are free after everything else you get. The main reason that pricing is in the "Good" category is sustainability. Cartika isn't going to be forced to squeeze extra customers onto their servers, or cut support hours, or stop adding new servers and features just to compete with Yet Another Cheap Overseller. Then again, I use a Mac because I believe quality is worth a little more. The Roadmap -- Cartika is always working on adding cool new toys. Last year we got HAL (High Availability Linux), and they've said in their forums that more great stuff is on the way (HA Windows, perhaps?), but whatever their internal roadmap actually looks like, I can trust them to do it right. THE BAD Limited by Hsphere -- My only real complaints aren't with Cartika... they're with Hsphere. And since this isn't a review of Hsphere, I'll just leave it at that. Don't get me wrong, Hsphere is the best there is at what it does (kinda like Wolverine!), but if you want to get just a little bit outside the box, it gets tricky. However, that allows the clever among us to stand apart. But this limitation did result in my needing to get a shared account at another host, since Hsphere servers don't have the mailparse PHP extension, which my helpdesk requires. Granted, I didn't have to choose that helpdesk, since Hsphere does come with one built-in, but... and in the turning lemons into lemonade department, if Cartika ever did go down, my helpdesk would still be up. And that's it. That's basically all that fits into "The Bad" category. If I had my 'druthers, I might wish they were in multiple datacenters (to protect against issues such as we saw with the fire at The Planet last year), and that they could give me every little thing my heart desires (subliminal guys says: SVN)... but 'druthers aside, I can't complain. THE UGLY Notta -- Clearly this is a rave review, and I wouldn't be as happy and content with Cartika as I obviously am if there was anything ugly about working with them. My only regret is that I can't afford to buy even more of their services . I would love to have my own dedicated cluster with them -- and someday I shall -- but for what I pay, I am more than thrilled with what I get. Bottom line: I spent over 10 years owning colo servers, and while that gave a good bang for the buck, it wasn't good for my peace of mind. I was always worried about the hardware. After I decided to forgo the colo experience, I spent some time researching and trying out various reseller and dedicated hosts, and I was never really happy (let alone completely satisfied) until I ended up with Cartika. If you've never used the Hsphere control panel, there WILL be a fairly steep learning curve (hence many of my support tickets), but once you get over that curve, things get really good, really quick. And for me, it's really good. Take care, Steve
Posted by tcstatic, 05-11-2009, 01:25 PM Very nice review. I too have been extremely happy for over 4 years with Cartika. What you have to say has been my experience as well and is spot on. I started with reseller accts with them before going with their dedicated solutions. Just have to add, you probably already did this, but you can link directly to your helpdesk application/URL through your reseller CP by going to E.Manager->3rd Party Tools->CPDevel->Support Selector. This will link up your 3rd party helpdesk application to your end user H-Sphere control panels. Like I said, you probably know this, but thought I would throw that in anyways I have never done a formal review...maybe on my 5 year anniversary
Posted by Bluesplinter, 05-11-2009, 02:49 PM Wow, 4+ years... I wonder what they'll have available by the time I've been there four years . I'd be interested in reading your review, especially with your POV from the dedicated side, so don't feel like you have to wait for your fifth anniversary. Yep, I use the Support Selector add-on, and it works just fine. Now if CPDevel would just write a Billing Selector add-on... Thanks! Steve
Posted by HivelocityDD, 05-11-2009, 03:20 PM Nice review
Posted by ldcdc, 05-11-2009, 03:52 PM Now that's some review all right! Well done Bluesplinter!
Posted by gnjain, 05-11-2009, 04:22 PM all above review are of in 2005
Posted by Bluesplinter, 05-11-2009, 04:57 PM If you mean written in 2005, nope, I wrote it today, May 11, 2009. The 2005 you see is when I first joined WHT.
Posted by gnjain, 05-11-2009, 05:01 PM thanks then its great review
Posted by darkeden, 05-11-2009, 05:02 PM Nice to see the review. Never thought a company could last with there costs but they have proved me wrong time and time again. Hopefully they add somthing new this year like they seem to be doing every year.
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-11-2009, 05:37 PM Hi Steve, wow - that is one heck of a review.. thank you very much for taking the time to write that up and post it..
Posted by Bluesplinter, 05-11-2009, 07:30 PM Hey Andrew, Least I could do. And please mention it to your crew, so they'll know how much the support they provide is appreciated. They take good care of me, and it means a lot. Steve
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-11-2009, 10:37 PM Dont worry Steve, I made sure they saw this thread .. thanks again..
Posted by gemini5011, 05-11-2009, 11:12 PM Thanks That was a good review
Posted by Orien, 05-12-2009, 01:53 AM A simply wonderful review for a great company. Thanks!
Posted by rrdns, 05-12-2009, 04:43 AM This is another great review very detail explained and thorough.
Posted by richrf, 05-13-2009, 02:34 PM Hi, I need very reliable backup/restore as well as 24x7 phone support. Would any member care to comment? Also, I am in the midst of a huge learning curve for some application development, and do not have any time to learn a new administration interface. Can you comment on the learning curve for HSphere. Also, any comments in regards to Cartika's approach to DDOS attacks and their response to such issues. Thanks. Rich
Posted by carmonle, 05-13-2009, 04:24 PM I will give a slightly different opinion about Cartika hosting. I have been with cartika hosting for 2 years (my DNS is using www.carmon.org) and I am in the process of leaving them. I have a custom plan with them for which I was paying a monthly fee for their services, had more resources than I actually needed and used, but I was ok with that and happy with the service they provide. One day abot 2 weeks ago, without checking with me - on their initative, they lowered my price by $5 a month and cut my resources by 33% without asking for my aproval or notifying me. I exchanged PM with Andrew and his response was basically take it or leave it, he was not willing to undo the changes he done and so I'm leaving. I have moved all my accounts except one (the biggest account) to eirca.net and I'm waiting for that account to decide what to do. I know they are thinking of staying with cartika and get hosting directly with them, but with such behavior from a service provider and its owner, as good as they are, I'm not going to stay with cartika hosting. There is a way to do business and it is not right that it was changed without notice by one side. I also did not like the tone in the PM I had with Andrew. Eran Carmon
Posted by rv_irl, 05-13-2009, 04:53 PM Are you sure they didn't notify you? Did they give you any prior notification at all (perhaps the email was overlooked)? It doesn't sound like something Cartika would normally do as they are (evidently) pretty reputable..
Posted by carmonle, 05-13-2009, 05:07 PM No, they did not, they thought I would be very happy with a $5 monthly saving. I actually was charged extra $15 compare to my regular plan charge and that is how I found about my plan change. Cartika immidiatly credited my reseller account with the excess charge once I approched them (not my credit card) Here is an extract from my invoice: Monthly fee for (4/28/09 - 5/28/09) $25.00 Monthly fee for extra 10GB above free 20GB of traffic (4/28/09 - 5/28/09) $20.00 Charge to Credit Card $45.00 Eran Last edited by carmonle; 05-13-2009 at 05:13 PM.
Posted by tcstatic, 05-13-2009, 05:37 PM I am confused.. So is the account costing you more every month? How much did your prices go up by? prices do change at any host and from what you are stating in this and your other messages about this is your prices have gone up? I can't figure it out because I am almost led to believe you are saving money with:
Posted by richrf, 05-13-2009, 05:48 PM Hi Eran, Thanks for the note. As I understand the gist of your complaint, is that Cartika changed your plan without proper notification, and time so that you can find an alternate provider. I agree with you. This is sort of a page out of the credit card provider business model. It is really unfortunate that providers, in general, nowadays do not feel that proper notification, and customer satisfaction, should be part of any business model. But times have changed, money is getting tighter, and those providers that stick with business practices that promote customer satisfaction, are probably the only ones that are going to survive. Thanks again for your comment. Rich
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-13-2009, 10:32 PM Hello Eran, yes, we did change several of our plans around. In almost all cases, plans became cheaper with more resources. We had an administrative requirement to consolidate several plans and reduce the number of plans we were managing. you clearly should have been contacted - I apologize you were not. having said this, we moved over 300 users around to different plans, etc - and not a single customers cost went up and aside from yourself, not a single customer is unsatisfied. I accept we did not meet your expectations and I apologize for that. If you are unsatisfied, I can understand that - and again, I apologize I was not able to meet your expectations..however, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the tone of our PM messages.. Here is a copy of the PM I sent you I am not sure it is fair to suggest my tone was out of line. It was also quite evident the way you were handling this that you expected us to meet your demands or you would make a WHT complaint - and it appears that was indeed your intended course of action. We did our best to accommodate you - and unfortunately, we could not. We needed to make particular administrative decisions and unfortunately it resulted in a change you were not happy with (though, I was hopeful that a drop in your monthly fee along with an additional free month service would have been a happy compromise) I hold absolutely no ill will and wish you all the best in your endeavors Last edited by cartika-andrew; 05-13-2009 at 10:44 PM.
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-13-2009, 10:35 PM I apologize if you feel we mistreated this customer. Eran indeed was not notified of this change, and I sincerely apologize - that was in error.. Our entire business is built on satisfying our customers.. a little bit of research would clearly demonstrate this to you.. I can only speak for ourselves, but, money is not getting tighter at all. We are built as a value based provider and are thriving in an economic climate where businesses require true and absolute value for their expenditures... Our primary business objective these days is not survival - our primary objective is ensuring we continue to grow in a manner that does not negatively affect our existing service levels and continue to build additional value into our offerings... Last edited by cartika-andrew; 05-13-2009 at 10:45 PM.
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-13-2009, 10:41 PM I can let you know that we have 30 day, redundant backups of all customer data - and customers have direct access to most of this backup data. H-Sphere does carry a learning curve if you have never worked with automation systems previously. If you are coming from solutions based on cpanel for example, H-Sphere will appear more complex (because it does a lot more). If you are coming from more complex automation solutions, H-Sphere will be a walk in the part... DDOS attacks are difficult to manage in shared hosting. This is certainly not something we specialize in. We do have core DDOS protection for customers, however, there is a threshold of the size and frequency of attacks we typically can handle Hopefully this information is useful to you and hopefully you garner some additional feedback from our customers.. Best of luck in your search and in your project thanks
Posted by richrf, 05-13-2009, 11:10 PM Hi Andrew, Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions in detail. As for the above, were any of your customers notified of the change prior to your company making the change? If yes - then it is a shame that Eran fell through the cracks. If no - there lies the crux of the problem. Rich
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-14-2009, 12:10 AM Not a problem at all.. Plan changes occur all the time. this is true with every provider and in pretty much every services industry. Almost always plan changes are in favour of the customers. And no, we do not typically notify each customer of each plan about every single plan change. You would need a team of people dedicated to just this task (though, these things are usually discussed openly in our customer forums and customers are welcomed and encouraged to participate in these discussions). now, I do agree that if a plan change were to occur that would significantly impact a customer in a negative manner, then they should be contacted. In this instance, it is a gray area at best. The customers price went down, several resources increased and admittedly some resources decreased (though the customer was nowhere near those levels). I believe the customer is over-reacting here - I do apologize for upsetting them, and I do sincerely feel badly they are so upset, but, it does not mean I agree with them.. Again, I do not believe there is a problem here at all.. I am not pleased a customer is upset, but, I do not believe there is anything wrong here. The customer suffered zero negative financial loss - they actually had their prices reduced, and they are always free to switch providers if they do not like a direction we are going.. this is not a problem per se - this is normal business and for our part, I think we handled ourselves quite well.. Last edited by cartika-andrew; 05-14-2009 at 12:14 AM.
Posted by carmonle, 05-14-2009, 01:42 AM This sums up the tone As I said before, Cartika Hosting has good quality service but in my opinion they handeled it badly and left me with an option to accept the change or to look for another host which I choose to do. Eran
Posted by tcstatic, 05-14-2009, 07:30 AM Eran, After reading all your posts on this subject I now understand. Your price actually went down by $5.00 per month on a custom plan offered to you by Cartika, they increased some resources, but decreased other resources that you were not using or plan on using in the future. It seems you are more upset about the process then the money. This is evident, as it seems your plan went down in price. You are using reseller accounts from what I gather since you state "moved all my accounts except one". You also are now paying two accounts, one with Cartika at $25 and I have no idea what your prices are at Eirca as their smallest reseller starts at $24.95. So your original cost was $30 at Cartika, went down to $25 and you are currently paying out maybe $50 between Cartika and Eirca for resources that were handled easily by your $25 plan at Cartika. This simply does not make any sense to me, as it seems you have been more than happy with their service, uptime, and support. I think anyone knows by looking at my posts going back 4+ years I am a big fan of Cartika, but for you threaten a host they must meet your demands or you will bad-mouth them on a popular forum…that is not a good way to conduct business on your part IMHO. You are stating Cartika handled this in a poor business manner in your posts (in other threads also), yet you demand something or you threaten to bad mouth them on forums? That's a good way to conduct business? I can only say good luck to you, as I never let my ego make poor business decisions.
Posted by carmonle, 05-14-2009, 08:20 AM Where do you get this from? You can search all my posts at WHT and you will not find anything. I tried to undo the changes to my plan and was given a negative answer so I decided to move. I use WHT to find review and info about hosting services, so I wanted to give info about my personal experince with cartica so other people looking for hosting will know about it. Cartika lowered my monthly transfer from 30GB to 20GB where my big client has used so far this month 7.5 GB in 2 weeks. why should I be happy with one side doing forced changes! Eran
Posted by cartika-andrew, 05-14-2009, 09:20 AM Hello Eran, I apologize, however, this is the 2nd time you have inferred a "tone" you are not happy with. Frankly, from what I can see in all of the discussions, emails, phone logs, private messages, forum posts, etc on this topic, you have been treated courteously and professionally the entire way. Again, I apologize if you do not like the end result. Thank you for your business and I wish you all the best with your future endeavors..
Posted by tcstatic, 05-14-2009, 09:52 AM From the following: Did you increase the cost to your "big client" for his increased transfer? Did it increase your prices at Cartika (or would it have)? I'm simply stating that it sounds like you got miffed about the changes, although from the sounds of things it still doesn't sound like it was going to affect your prices in a negative way. It also sounds like you have one customer that is leaving you to stay with Cartika directly. This is my last reply on this as you as a business owner certainly have the right to make decisions regardless if I or anyone else would consider them sound business practices. Please come back and post your review of Eirca in a few months or so as I believe hosts deserve good reviews as well as complaints.
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